FabFilter

Hi!

Any suggestion on how setup pro-L on a drum bus to smooth and levelling the transients without loosing the punch?

ah yes, another one: do you think makes any sense to use a limiter on drums??? ^__^

I learned a lot from watching this video about mastering with Fabfilter Pro-L. He is using this technique on the bus but it can be applied to the drum bus as well:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY4UFEZFRpg

Best tutorial ever xD.

Anyone has any feedback about using limiter on drum bus to earn headroom without loose too much punch? Or is better to use a compressor, maybe with high ratio?

You are more likely wanting to use a compressor.

For help on what to listen for when adjusting the knobs on your compressor I would watch all 6 Kush UBK videos, even the ones not on compression. Pay special attention to when he is talking about movement because it is movement that breathes life into your mix, transforming it from something sterile and obviously mixed in the box into a living, breathing, grooving entity. Punch exists within the movement. Movement is the bigger picture and what you want to have a keen sense of when you are working with your compressors and limiters.

Then for techniques I would start by doing a search for "Into the Lair #1" on YouTube and work your way through Pensado's series. He goes over drum treatment a great deal.

My heavy-handed and overly simply example for what breathing starts to sound like (giving no thought to groove--grab and release--for this example) is to take a slow ballad, stick a multiband compressor with 4 bands just before the limiter, set the crossovers at 90hz, 2400hz and 9k, keep gains at 0, and then set the thresholds of the lows, highs, and ultra highs so that you are getting less than a dB of gain reduction. Set the threshold on the mids so there is no gain reduction. When you toggle the bypass button on the compressor, if your mix is flat and sterile it should suddenly start to breathe and come to life; become more 3d and organic. More compelling results will be obtained by working with this when adjusting the attack, release, and mix level of your single band compressors prior to hitting the mix bus. Here you are focusing on the groove, and the breathing will come naturally with that.

Another thing that helps immensely is to make sure all your delays and all the times in your reverbs are tempo synced, even down to your pre-delays. If you are applying any sort of lfo shaping to your individual drums for instance, the sustains and so forth need to be tempo synced. I wouldn't even bother with compression until you have these set right. Strums and instrument sustains can be tempo synced as well. This will tighten up and reinforce your groove considerably while making it much easier to dial in the qualities you are looking for with your compressors. This also makes it so you have to do less compression on things to make room for other things since everything is happening where it is suppose to and so everything falls more neatly into place.

www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bpmtempotime.htm

Thank you very much! I've to learn multiband compression so thanks for your precious informations.
So limiter on drums is bad i am gonna think...Maybe a comp with high ratio and fast attack (with 2-3 db of gain reduction) could do the trick to levelling the transients without loosing the punch, but i think that not all compressors are good to make this task.

Yes, if you are just trying to tame the transients a fast attack and fast release with the threshold (and knee) set so only the transients are crossing it is what you are looking for but this will invariably reduce your punch as well. There is no punch without transients and so in order to retain a sense of punch you need to very carefully adjust the attack and release so that they groove with your track. There isn't a magic setting in any compressor for reducing transients and retaining punch. You have to listen carefully while you are setting each one to find the balance you are seeking while emphasizing the groove.

Something to keep in mind is that the groove as a whole is more important than punch as a single factor of groove.

Think of a compressor as a volume fader that is being adjusted very rapidly over time. The movement of that fader has a shape that can either destroy your groove, be sort of transparent, or enhance it.

Pumping is probably the most heavy handed example of a compressor effect that can either be destructive or for some music enhance the groove (and what you will get with a fast attack and release if the threshold is set too low). But even when you are going for obvious pumping the attack and release have to be set so that they work with the groove. To complicate things there won't be just one setting either. Different settings will work and have a different character so you have to listen carefully to get what you are looking for.

I don't know what kind of music you are mixing but playing with some funk is probably a good starting point to really get a sense of what you can do with a compressor. The sort of whipping motion common in funk grooves is easy to catch on to and is a stark contrast to say the more binary motion often heard in bad electronica. Then when you are ready to get more subtle play around with mixing some basic jazz inspired pieces using the standard triplet rides. Regardless of what you are mixing I think playing around with these two genres will help increase your sensitivity to groove shaping while compressing.

Oh, and though I used a multiband compressor for that example in my first post I would not recommend using them at all until you are very comfortable with compressors in general and actually have a specific need for an MB. Personally I don't trust myself with them yet. Even with the lightest settings they have a drastic effect on the mix as shown in the example above.

To sum up I feel like I should emphasize why my responses are so long and don't just say use a fast attack, fast release, high threshold, and high ratio. Where those will technically be your starting point for taming the transients, keeping a sense of punch and groove will require more finesse and ultimately the groove can be enhanced in creative and subtle ways if you know what to listen for while honing in your settings.

The only time I've ever used a limiter on drums is for extreme effect after exaggerating transients with the Softube CL1B. I love what CL1B does to drums but it increases the dynamic range to a point where it's nearly unusable in normal mixing. That's where the Pro-L comes in. It's so deliciously transparent that I can use it after an extremely transient-laden drum bus and it magically evens out without changing the sound too much. It's the only limiter that I've used that can do it like that. Thanks Fabfilter! :)

-Sam

Usually on drums i go with some parallel compression using fabfilter pro-c and a glue-compressor on drum bus with a fast attack slow release and a ratio between 1.5 and 2.0 (gain reduction 1-3 db). Of course i put also an individual compressor on each instrument of drum kit.
"Usually" i got the drum sound i am looking for...my problem is to mix with a mastering perspective, where, as we know, the loudness have to raise to a commercial level. The first thing that loose its sound qualities is the drums sound, so i want to learn the technichs to preserve the drum sound and achieve a good headroom for mastering.
Hope this makes sense!

And that's the dilemma, once you start squashing the hell out of your track you have to get very subtle and creative. You have to start enhancing the groove in another dimension and you can no longer afford to let each kit piece shine in it's full glory. You have to start eq'ing to fit each piece nicely into it's limited space in the squashed mix. One of the many things that makes modern mixes almost unbearable for me to listen to for long periods is that they have become almost purely transients. The transients are arguably the most important part of any sound (identity, localization, punch, etc), and so as you squash more and more the first thing that starts getting tossed aside is body of the sound. I've been paying a premium for albums in 96/24 WAV format, but would pay twice as much for mixes with more dynamic range.

Imagine how different this would sound if you were actually in a room with the band playing this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg9UN4Rb5Uc

The drums here don't even sound remotely like they would in person.